tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post1278578087297354339..comments2024-02-18T00:24:05.514-08:00Comments on The Zoë-Trope: WRITERS, READERS, & PIRATESZoë Marriotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-49950129295751093202013-08-08T08:27:30.053-07:002013-08-08T08:27:30.053-07:00Hi E.,
Well, that is comforting! Although the sit...Hi E.,<br /><br />Well, that is comforting! Although the site where I initially found DotF was actually a forum, one of those filesharing sites where people post requests and then other people get points for fulfilling them. I assume that it's far less likely for those sorts of sites to be offering up malware, although if a bunch of people did end up with infected computers after trying to pirate my stuff, I would be tickled pink. Justice, by God.<br />Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-34417484760339294812013-08-08T08:21:29.274-07:002013-08-08T08:21:29.274-07:00Hey Zo,
I meant to post this months ago, and your...Hey Zo,<br /><br />I meant to post this months ago, and your post today jogged my memory.<br /><br />It's simply this: you can't trust download stats on pirate sites. It may *say* a book has been downloaded 300K times. It's almost certainly nonsense.<br /><br />Inflating stats like this is done to increase the level of trust in the site felt by the downloader - it's designed to suggest that lots of other people have done the same thing, presumably without problems. Whereas it's reasonably likely that the download link is a vector for malware, etc. <br /><br />In many cases, the file isn't even being offered for download - the listing is being constructed out of your initial search. Until fairly recently (and I am not sure what's changed) you could go to Google and search for "the swan kingdom 2: swan harder ebook torrent" and be directed to a faked-up download page for this fictitious book, complete with impressive-sounding download stats and "100% working mirrors" etc.iucoununoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-3900041413479834882013-05-12T06:46:07.382-07:002013-05-12T06:46:07.382-07:00This is all so true :) People always claim that pi...This is all so true :) People always claim that piracy doesn't hurt anyone but if I was a writer, I would be quite annoyed if I COULD HAVE earned so much more if my book had been BOUGHT and not pirated.Meghahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12742036431445559047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-54218730287605309402013-05-11T06:46:01.861-07:002013-05-11T06:46:01.861-07:00I really don't understand pirating books, beca...I really don't understand pirating books, because a library membership costs, what, 10$ a year for all the books you could ever want. <br /><br />However, I do download TV shows, because I want to watch them in the original language and not one year or two later. If there was something like Netflix in my country I'd gladly pay for that to be able to watch shows, but of course it's blocked here. <br />I think the difference is that TV is essentially free already - I can just turn on the TV and watch things, so why would I pay for them just because I have the misfortune of living in a different country? I would also have no problem with watching TV shows with ads included, but again, that option simply isn't there. Cluisannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-61065414917540484762013-05-08T12:34:31.618-07:002013-05-08T12:34:31.618-07:00Thanks for the clarification Paul. I agree with y...Thanks for the clarification Paul. I agree with you entirely! :-)Mike Briggsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-28443447875090545292013-05-08T08:45:02.091-07:002013-05-08T08:45:02.091-07:00Just to be clear about what I'd said back ther...Just to be clear about what I'd said back there about difference between high-earners and low-earners. By high-earners, I mean the superstar authors. The JK Rowlings and Stephen Kings and Neil Gaimans, who can write the ingredients of a candy bar down and it'll sell, who could decide to never write again and still live on the money they've already made.<br /><br />Anyone depending on a continuing income from their writing is going to feel it when any earnings are lost.Paul Anthony Shortthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393249001158230985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-74569153778854633862013-05-08T08:32:02.746-07:002013-05-08T08:32:02.746-07:00Wow, my previous comment is almost unintelligible ...Wow, my previous comment is almost unintelligible -- that will teach me to post when I'm exhausted!<br /><br />I just wanted to respond to the idea that piracy is less of a problem for established authors. Piracy affects everybody. It's true that we make a good living from my wife's writing. We're comfortable, but not wealthy. We still have a mortgage payment, and three kids in college. When we look at the number of pirated copies of Patty's books being offered I often think "If only a quarter of those people were paying for their books, we could afford . . ". <br /><br />I feel guilty when we see obviously poor people coming to a book signing with a newly published hardback. Why should those fans spend money they probably don't have to support an author, when so many thousands of others don't bother? It's not fair for the dishonest people to prosper on the backs of good people.<br /><br />For us, it's not honestly a question of survival. We're living well, and the next book will probably sell. But the financial impact is certainly felt, and the issues of fairness and MOTIVATION to write another book are very real, and very serious. <br /><br />Thank you again for such a well-written and insightful column!Mike Briggsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-88293327243648189052013-05-08T02:54:20.150-07:002013-05-08T02:54:20.150-07:00I don't, either. And I don't believe any s...I don't, either. And I don't believe any significant number of piraters buy legal copies of the products they download. Maybe some do, but if it was anything more than a tiny minority, I'd be truly shocked.<br /><br />Regardless, I believe that the argument that pirates will eventually buy legal copies, even if it were the case for the majority of pirates, is inherently flawed, because it's asking artists to potentially lose money on the promise that they'll get that money back later. <br />Paul Anthony Shortthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393249001158230985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-62959270774880335412013-05-08T02:39:57.552-07:002013-05-08T02:39:57.552-07:00Paul: I don't put much credence in the idea th...Paul: I don't put much credence in the idea that most people who pirate books eventually buy a copy anyway. Perhaps they buy future copies of that authors books (if they can't wait until the scalped version turns up online) but I don't know that you're likely to ever get back the income from the first two or three books of yours that they read in order to decide for themselves that your future work might be worthy of their money. This is with all due respect to Caite, above, of course. But even she admits that she only goes ahead and buys the books that she enjoyed. So the authors whose books she didn't enjoy (which doesn't reflect on the quality of those books, afterall, merely Caite's own personal and subjective taste) or enjoyed but not enough to pay for them, are still losing out. It seems so very unfair, and I can't understand why people don't grasp that.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-53138509877883453362013-05-08T00:39:21.738-07:002013-05-08T00:39:21.738-07:00I had a thought last night about the argument that...I had a thought last night about the argument that pirated copies increase sales figures, or that someone who pirates a copy will later buy one legally. It comes down to this:<br /><br />You make $20,000 a year. You're getting by, but you'd feel more comfortable if your income was higher.<br /><br />Someone asks you to give up $5,000 of your salary for a year, on the condition that you'll make $30,000 the following year.<br /><br />While a 50% increase in your income is fantastic, the average person (midlist/new author or not) can't afford to lose 25% of their earnings for a whole year. Bills would go unpaid, mortgage payments would be missed. It's just not reasonable to ask someone to put themselves through that on the promise that it'll turn out well in the end.<br /><br />Obviously this is an over-simplification, but I think it stands. Piracy does not have the same impact on higher-earning artists that it does on lower earners, and I think that fact is overlooked very often.Paul Anthony Shortthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393249001158230985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-64858725249804369842013-05-08T00:28:07.848-07:002013-05-08T00:28:07.848-07:00Hob: I would like to know that myself! I've as...Hob: I would like to know that myself! I've asked for figures, but so far no one at the publisher is being forthcoming (to be fair, they're busy people). The only way for me to work it out myself would be to dig out all the royalty statements for the past four years and try to add it up, but the way statements are laid out makes it so incredibly complicated that I'm not sure that would be possible even if I was decent at figures. Oh, well.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-10429058378124261362013-05-08T00:25:48.711-07:002013-05-08T00:25:48.711-07:00Mike: Exactly. People who steal books (and then ac...Mike: Exactly. People who steal books (and then act proud of it!) are basically telling authors that a year or more of our hard work is not worth the same amount that an hour of the McDonald's drive-thru clerk's time is worth. I'd love to know how all these pirates would feel if someone came along and told them that their job had been reclassified as 'art' and they should be willing to work for free from now on, just for the love of it. Oh, you have to feed your family? Well, you should have thought of that before and chosen a different job, shouldn't you? (BTW, I love your wife's books - I have the new MT on preorder. Can't wait!).Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-51251532910929584682013-05-08T00:15:44.899-07:002013-05-08T00:15:44.899-07:00Just out of interest Zoë, (and thanks for fixing t...Just out of interest Zoë, (and thanks for fixing the link and having this great discussion) - how well has "Shadows on the Moon" and "FrostFire" sold?<br /><br />-HobbitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-72468389904260551872013-05-08T00:15:22.276-07:002013-05-08T00:15:22.276-07:00This was an excellent and well-written article. M...This was an excellent and well-written article. My wife is a best-selling author, and I am perpetually astounded by the number of sites offering all of her work for free download.<br /><br />The worst part is that being an author is a solitary profession, and it takes an incredibly amount of time and dedication to craft a good novel. The massive scale of the piracy (combined with the entitled readers who can't resist writing to brag about how they don't have to pay) is disheartening. It's disrespectful. Piracy is way of saying that "You don't deserve to be paid for your work. The greeter at WalMart is more deserving than you." And, some days, even an author with multiple #1 NYT titles just has to wonder if it's worth the effort to create another book for the ungrateful, entitled pirates to steal. Maybe, just maybe, working as a WalMart greeter would be more worthwhile. They certainly get more respect than authors!Mike Briggshttp://www.hurog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-87053979627897630002013-05-07T23:48:53.341-07:002013-05-07T23:48:53.341-07:00Rebecca: Thanks, Hun :) DotF seems to be the most ...Rebecca: Thanks, Hun :) DotF seems to be the most pirated of all my books, although it continues to have the lowest sales figures. I've never been able to figure out how/why it was pirated so early and so vigorously, but I try not to let myself get too sad about it anymore. There's nothing I can do.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-65059556586853113202013-05-07T15:09:24.852-07:002013-05-07T15:09:24.852-07:00I am really shocked that so many people pirated Da...I am really shocked that so many people pirated Daughter of the Flames. It is one of my favourite books and I have always thought it was unawknowledged by many people. I never understood why more people hadn't bought it. I'm really gutted for you.Rebecca Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14971640548147042108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-61747628480384364082013-05-07T11:00:09.203-07:002013-05-07T11:00:09.203-07:00Q: Thanks :)
Kate: Oh no, I didn't think you ...Q: Thanks :)<br /><br />Kate: Oh no, I didn't think you were. I just found your quote from him so utterly mind-boggling that I had to respond. I wonder if he also takes candy from children when their parents aren't looking?Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-79742812570838309822013-05-07T10:58:37.952-07:002013-05-07T10:58:37.952-07:00For the record the guy I mentioned (the one who of...For the record the guy I mentioned (the one who offered to pirate a book for my friend) also shoplifts as a hobby so I'm in no way defending him. I don't have a good answer as to why he thinks that's a reasonable way to behave: honestly I try to tune him out most of the time. Kate Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128951198724665222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-1003728822438492102013-05-07T08:47:50.709-07:002013-05-07T08:47:50.709-07:00Aonghus: Well, that's not my perception, hence...Aonghus: Well, that's not my perception, hence why I pointed out that if only half the people who had pirated my second book had bought it, it would still have made a huge difference to me. It's best if you attempt to refute points I've actually made; I'm not going to be derailed by defending assumptions which don't belong to me.<br /><br />Do you think the friends of the pirates get a recommendation to go and buy something? I doubt it, especially since I've met several people who attempted to persuade me that I ought to be illegally downloading films and music just like them. What friends and relatives of a pirate get is a link to the same illegal download, which means that a pirate's 'recommendation' doesn't help me or my books at all. It's just more people stealing my stuff; and even if each and every one of those people love my books to bits, somehow I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about it. I know very well how word of mouth book recommendations work; I do live in the real world (surprise!) and I get and give book recommendations that way all the time. What you're apparently not getting here is that this process happened brilliantly via cheap used copies, library loans, gifts and lending books from your own collection for a couple of hundred years before illegal downloads ever came along (each of these methods, by the way, ensures that the author recieves the correct income from the original sale of their work). Authors do not demand that people stop doing any of those things. We LOVE people doing those things. What we want is for people to stop stealing our work without our consent and then making out we should somehow be grateful to them for it. Taking things without consent is wrong in essence. You can call that simplifying if you want, but it won't make it any less fundamentally true. I'm not grateful to a pirate because he mentioned that he liked the book he stole to someone on the bus. I'd rather he never read or recommend it at all if he had to steal it in order to do so.<br /><br />I'm afraid you've misread my mention of Neil Gaiman. I was referring to an exchange which I had on Twitter with him. I assume you weren't there for that, so you'll just have to trust my memory of what we discussed. I have also read his posts on piracy and I don't agree with him because, as I've pointed out in my post, it's impossible for someone who expects to sell millions of copies of their books to understand what a huge difference mere thousands of illegal downloads make to a newbie or midlist writer.<br />Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-20632433848719554002013-05-07T08:39:56.252-07:002013-05-07T08:39:56.252-07:00YES. This.YES. This.Qhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08756447854917857756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-92094537250179462802013-05-07T08:17:21.856-07:002013-05-07T08:17:21.856-07:00Caite: Well, I'm impressed by the thoughtfulne...Caite: Well, I'm impressed by the thoughtfulness of your answer. I do sympathise, because I too have limited funds and limited space, and sometimes things take a while to migrate across the pond to the UK as well (manga, for instance. Waiting for Bleach is torture, I tell you). I solve the problem of limited space by buying books for my Kobo (which was a combined birthday present from my parents and sister) when I can afford them, and borrowing from the library a lot. But I can sympathise with wanting to know something is actually GOOD before you spend good money on it when your budget is limited. And I'm sure your efforts to actually go out and buy the things you enjoy does help their creators.<br /><br /> Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-37900503284749024632013-05-07T08:11:22.380-07:002013-05-07T08:11:22.380-07:00Kate: I suppose 'because it's wrong' w...Kate: I suppose 'because it's wrong' would simply never occur to this person? I could probably quite easily walk into my deaf, nearly blind next door neighbour's house and take her diamond engagement ring without anyone ever catching me at it or suspecting me. But since I don't chose to be a thieving b*****d, or hurt other people simply because they can't defend themselves, I don't. Why is this such a hard concept? *Sigh*<br /><br />S.J.: And think how horrifying if you knew that each person who stole a piece of your work could copy it infinitely and give those copies away, too. <br /><br />Hannah: Please don't ever feel bad borrowing from the library, or buying second hand. In each of those cases the author has had the income from the initial sale, and in the case of libraries continued borrowing hopefully prompts more library sales. Plus, that's how I get a lot of my books, so if you feel bad, I have to as well :)Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-10533737225582045642013-05-07T07:03:24.220-07:002013-05-07T07:03:24.220-07:00There is a delusion in the content creation space ...There is a delusion in the content creation space that every pirated copy is a lost sale*. This is, frankly, rubbish. Most people who pirate something had zero intention of buying it, and in a world where piracy wouldn't exist, would just not interact with it. However once they do pirate it, if they enjoy it, they'll recommend it to their friends. They'll go out and buy the sequel. They'll pick up copies as presents for people - or just a copy for themselves. But even if all they do is say "X was pretty good" to a friend on the bus, that might cause someone to have enough reason to go ahead and buy it.<br /><br />You mentioned Neil Gaiman noticing an increase in sales after free copies, and speculated that the same feeling wouldn't apply to piracy - That's not correct. Mr. Gaiman has spoken out that it doesn't bother him that his material is pirated - he sees it as equivalent to lending and borrowing (Source:http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110211/00384413053/how-neil-gaiman-went-fearing-piracy-to-believing-its-incredibly-good-thing.shtml). And how many people discovered their favorite authors through a friend loaning them a book, compared to a random buy in a book store? Or even just a friend telling you "Go buy X, I've read it and I think it's up your street."<br /><br />If you see pirates as people stealing food from your mouth, then you're grossly simplifying a complex problem, and doing no one any favours.<br /><br />*There is an equivalent delusion, by the way, in the content piracy space that no download is a lost sale, and it's equally rubbish. The truth lies somewhere in the middleAonghushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00361595573746038705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-37856560711004114242013-05-07T06:19:33.145-07:002013-05-07T06:19:33.145-07:00Think of the fanfic authors who apologise for not ...Think of the fanfic authors who apologise for not writing something the way people want and ask people not to flame them - if people flame you, tough. They're the idiots who... no, just idiots.<br /><br />Seriously, this is a subject that bothers me so much that I have an unwritten draft sitting there.. and now it has an amazing post to refer to. <br /><br />I'm unemployed. We barely afford the bare essentials. I definitely cannot afford to buy books. Occasionally I borrow from the library, or buy second hand, and I FEEL A LITTLE BAD that somewhere along that line I'm taking out of author's pockets, BUT I'm also happy in the knowledge that I'm not stealing. I would never consider pirating, no matter how destitute we became. Especially not books. Beg, borrow, and get second hand sure, but never steal. Makes me so sad and that number of people who pirated your second book?! Angry. Hannah @ Once Upon A Timehttp://onceuponatime.jaedia.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-63499016192352767672013-05-07T05:56:50.182-07:002013-05-07T05:56:50.182-07:00I pirate things. I admit it. I have a limited inco...I pirate things. I admit it. I have a limited income, limited space, and I live in a part of the world where tv, movies, and books can take months or even years to be released, and I would like to be a part of fandom. <br /><br />But I also buy a lot of books, and movies, and tv shows on dvd. Because I do love these things. If someone recommends a new author to me, the first thing I will do is pirate one of their books, so I can read more than just the first chapter that amazon lets me sample. If I love it, I'll then go and buy a copy, often while I'm still reading it (meatspace or digital, depending on the amount of love and if it's a book I can envisage sharing). I'll put the author's next book on my wish list or preorder it, because I do love books. I've found some of my favourite authors this way. I guess I see it more as a library loan than anything else, although that's not a particularly accurate analogy. <br /><br />I try not to be one of the bad pirates ruining the careers of authors and creative types, and I'm sorry about those who love but don't buy your books. I haven't read any yet, but I'm impressed by the thoughtfulness of this post. Caitenoreply@blogger.com