tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post5391624094771279140..comments2024-02-18T00:24:05.514-08:00Comments on The Zoë-Trope: INSTA-LOVE: I DO NOT THINK IT MEANS WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANSZoë Marriotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-38096927850939027122014-12-04T07:32:45.928-08:002014-12-04T07:32:45.928-08:00Not like I were a social or emotional expert, but ...Not like I were a social or emotional expert, but as I know, attraction can indeed form in the first moment of meeting, but that's far from True Love yet. I have felt sometimes what I called love, but later I realized it was only what TvTropes calls "Loving a shadow".KashyaCharsihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702385668581731160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-24085304994005540572014-12-02T08:13:11.069-08:002014-12-02T08:13:11.069-08:00At first, I'd think that I'd despise this ...At first, I'd think that I'd despise this trope with a firey passion. But, after getting into Robin Hobb's "Rain Wilds Chronicles", I've actually discovered a fondness for relationships that come out of nowhere. But in the good way; like when both readers and two equally flesh-out but very different characters are blindsided by this sudden spark. And it isn't even "pure" love. It mostly manifests as different aspects of relationships like infatuation, jealousy, betrayal, commitment, sexual awakening and control. In one chapter a character can be pining for this love interest only for them to be falling for a completely different character a few chapters later. It's interesting to see where each character's flights-of-fancy will take them because it does something I feel most romances should set out to do from the beginning: inform character development; evolve with their changing perspectives; mature as they grow and learn. Just like with people in real life. While this may not always be positive it doesn't make it any less meaningful than the traditional, puritan notions of monogamous love the romance genre seems married to.<br /><br />When it comes to romance, I think the number one thing that holds writers back is the notion that relationships always have to be "true". The wish-fulfillment, that a spark should always culminate in this true, "everlasting" love regardless of how much the connection between these two characters could actually keep them afloat realistically. There's this idea that a relationship can only be valid or meaningful if it's true love otherwise it's false. Not to mention w***ish on the heroine's part.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16615776239683906822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-10759603136567556032012-10-01T10:20:43.439-07:002012-10-01T10:20:43.439-07:00I know I'm a little late to the party here, bu...I know I'm a little late to the party here, but what an interesting post. The insta-love thing is something that's been bothering me lately, because of a book I read recently. As I started reading this post I was all - yea that's what bugged me about that book. Now I've finished reading this post, I'm not so sure I was right to label it insta-love.<br /><br />This is definitely a really thought-provoking read. One I'll always be sure to remember. AmieSalmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11902800785882682491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-1737759338052227502012-09-29T22:06:07.765-07:002012-09-29T22:06:07.765-07:00Interesting! Whatever I think of as "insta-lo...Interesting! Whatever I think of as "insta-love," then, is something I find gross and unreal and silly and inauthentic, but I will concede that it's a personal understanding that comes from experience and also, as a completely different thing, has to do with your own reading interests. I find basically anything that is cataloged in the "romance" genre or that has "romance" anywhere in the flap copy to be insufferably awful, boring, and inauthentic when I read it, but obviously there are scads of people who don't agree with me and who keep reading and writing it. <br /><br />I think what I (and maybe others) object to so much with "insta-love" is that even when it's not instantaneous because of a prophecy or burning "I just know it's love" thing, so much fictional romance just seems to develop out of no actual time spent getting to know each other, and I just don't understand the <i>how</i> of it. It's a cause and effect thing that's missing, in my opinion.<br /><br />On the other hand, insta-lust makes complete and utter sense to me, and I think exploring the delusions, obsessions, self discovery, and nuanced relationships that come out of that are endlessly fascinating. While I want to believe that we can all use "love" in a non-BIG TELEVISION EVENT kind of way, I think since I've been acculturated into thinking that we can't and don't and won't, I just can't buy that the vast amount of characters I'm reading actually are in <i>that</i> kind of "love."<br /><br />Then again, I'm 24 and always single, so I'm clearly missing something anyway. haha.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-68251220443379376172012-09-28T08:12:04.013-07:002012-09-28T08:12:04.013-07:00Melanie: Don't make your heroine too sane and ...Melanie: Don't make your heroine too sane and grown-up though! Lately sometimes I get the feeling that the prevalence of insta-love has made people so cranky that their ideal heroine acts like a wealthy forty-five year old divorcee, only allowing herself to develop feelings (and then only sane, rational, proportionate ones) after the love interest in question has formally introduced himself, taken her out on three dates, and passed a background check. That's... really not how teenagers are. That's really not how most people are! So don't take the fun out of it for your MC :) She can be a littke crazy and over the top so long as it's in character, right?Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-80017226184913364922012-09-28T08:04:32.502-07:002012-09-28T08:04:32.502-07:00Great post! I actually did a (way less detailed) p...Great post! I actually did a (way less detailed) post about this on Monday- more of a question about the difference between insta-love and insta-crush. What other people often dub insta-love, I feel is an insta-crush and I don't mind that at all. I have gotten sick of the "drawn to each other for some inexplicable reason," but I don't mind the "he's so hot I want to get to know him better."<br /><br />My MS has been found guilty of insta-love. I didn't mean to do it, but I've figured out why it came across that way: My MC as an insta-crush but then gets a little obsessive and possessive of the guy for really no reason, aside from this crush. When I go revise, I'll make sure her initial attraction is there, but she's not quite so possessive of a guy she doesn't even know yet.<br /><br />Again, loved this post!Melanie Stanfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065112319140571241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-71289850849320997052012-09-26T23:49:53.908-07:002012-09-26T23:49:53.908-07:00Kristen: When I've really loved or really disl...Kristen: When I've really loved or really disliked a book I tend to head onto Goodreads to read a random sampling of reviews about it. I think this is why when there are trends in the phrases that reviewers use, I'm likely to see them, and also see when they start to be misused or redefined.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-82847034291603778482012-09-26T12:56:12.198-07:002012-09-26T12:56:12.198-07:00Hmmm... I don't think I've ever seen this ...Hmmm... I don't think I've ever seen this phrase misused. Maybe I need to read more blogs? I only apply the term when it's two people who have just met and are already "in love" with each other. I don't know why you would use the phrase otherwise...? True insta-love is one of my biggest pet peeves in YA (and only grudgingly forgiven in the case of fairy tales). I feel it's a lazy way to get characters to fall in love. I also admit to being very biased towards the slow burning romance though, one of my favorites being the enemies to lovers trope. <br /><br />Thank you for writing this. I'm gonna try to be more aware of using that phrase and see if I can expand upon my thoughts a little more when I talk about romance in books. :)<br /><br />PS For the record, I LOVE the romance in DotF.Kristen Eveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03311958096675391297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-32119801694871610142012-09-26T00:31:38.291-07:002012-09-26T00:31:38.291-07:00Isabel: I think insta-love is less common than we ...Isabel: I think insta-love is less common than we might think based on how often we see people throwing the term around. What I do think is more common is romance overall - which means, in turn, more romances that don't work for us personally. Hopefully it also means more good romances as well. But romance is definitely king these days in YA lit.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-52863716979140829192012-09-25T13:11:15.677-07:002012-09-25T13:11:15.677-07:00This is a really interesting post! Insta-love is d...This is a really interesting post! Insta-love is definitely an over-used term, but also a problem in romance these days. You always make such intelligent points!Isabelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11342147057396470743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-43144000797716550562012-09-25T13:07:44.239-07:002012-09-25T13:07:44.239-07:00Maureen: You're very welcome.
Cyndi: Bravo! I...Maureen: You're very welcome.<br /><br />Cyndi: Bravo! I agree with you completely. Thanks for commenting.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-26149922536904753572012-09-25T11:10:21.660-07:002012-09-25T11:10:21.660-07:00Great post! I actually despise the term "inst...Great post! I actually despise the term "insta-love" because of the connotation that it's unrealistic and wrong to fall for someone else quickly. Sometimes it happens that way, especially for teens (see my blog post on Crazy, Stupid Love That Lasts a Lifetime: http://t.co/7V6m9liY).<br /><br />In many romance novels, saying "I love you" is almost a check box that indicates the story is just about over. They've overcome the obstacles, slept together, and now comes the L word. The end.<br /><br />In real life (especially for teens), saying "I love you" often comes much earlier in the relationship. Maybe it's because it's a way for them to know where the relationship stands, maybe teens are better about expressing their feelings, or maybe teens just *feel* things stronger up front. I know I certainly did!<br /><br />Calling a story "insta-love" is dissing it altogether, I feel, so I never use the term. If the relationship comes across as unrealistic, it's better to say so. I'd chalk that up to poor character development, rather than tagging it with a derogatory label.<br /><br />Thanks for the discussion! :)<br /><br />CyndiAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01332426347997158850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-63093713876502729342012-09-25T08:48:28.298-07:002012-09-25T08:48:28.298-07:00Yes, it definitely does make sense. Thinking about...Yes, it definitely does make sense. Thinking about it more, I suspect that when I use it, it's less about actual timing/pacing and more about the type of romance--when the attraction seems to be purely physical, for instance. Though often it's a sign that I have larger issues with character development--if I'm enjoying a book and believe in the characters, I don't tend to notice timing as much. So again, breaking down my actual reaction would be a good thing.<br /><br />Thinking out loud at this point, but thank you for 1) writing such a thought-provoking post and 2) responding kindly. :) Maureen Ehttp://bysinginglight.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-8458711603623796782012-09-25T08:37:43.419-07:002012-09-25T08:37:43.419-07:00Maureen: You're right, I do think Mary-Sue is ...Maureen: You're right, I do think Mary-Sue is more obviously sexist. On the other hand, deriding romance can be problematic because most romance readers and writers are female (or at least pretend to be!). The thing about insta-love is that when you think about it you realise that we all know what it truly is, but at least 80% of the time that you see it in reviews the books mentioned don't seem to *be* insta-romances. You'll see readers saying 'Oh, there was no romance between Simon and Mary until 2/3rds of the way through and then suddenly insta-love!' and it kind of drives me crazy because that actually *isn't* insta-love is it? It's an entirely different kind of story. Obviously it didn't work as a romance for you, but how can I possibly tell why? And what's more, like we said, it kind of implies the author's done something a bit tawdry and cheap... when that probably isn't the case at all. So call insta-love out when it really IS insta-love, fine... but make sure you're not just saying insta-love because you didn't like the romance and can't put your finger on why. Does that make sense?Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-77901317382215370952012-09-25T07:52:19.508-07:002012-09-25T07:52:19.508-07:00I do think too that there's a problematic (ant...I do think too that there's a problematic (anti-woman) component to the Mary Sue term that isn't necessarily there in the insta-love idea, though I could very easily be wrong. Maureen Ehttp://bysinginglight.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-83044848512157139662012-09-25T07:48:07.831-07:002012-09-25T07:48:07.831-07:00I do know what you mean, and I'll certainly tr...I do know what you mean, and I'll certainly try to be more thoughtful of how I use the term. At the same time, I do think (as you've addressed) that in some instances it is a legitimate gripe. However, it would be good (for me personally) to try to address why I had that reaction to the romance, rather than just using the lazy shorthand of the insta-attraction term.Maureen Ehttp://bysinginglight.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-86832856622627995542012-09-25T06:18:07.680-07:002012-09-25T06:18:07.680-07:00Elyndra: Fingers crossed, anyway! The thing is, I ...Elyndra: Fingers crossed, anyway! The thing is, I know some people are going to call it insta-love regardless because... you know, if people can see an arranged marriage story as an insta-love story they can see ANYTHING that way. I might as well just go ahead and do what I want.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-42942320316623916332012-09-25T02:23:36.552-07:002012-09-25T02:23:36.552-07:00Sarah: Me too! I've tried to do that slow-burn...Sarah: Me too! I've tried to do that slow-burning thing in all my books so far - but with The Trilogy, one of the challenges I've tried to set myself is to write this epic story that takes place over a week, and part of that is a love story. I've worked so hard to make it credible that the main characters can fall in love quickly without it being this cheap insta-love sort of thing. I hope it works...Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-65600015221187257622012-09-25T01:34:19.298-07:002012-09-25T01:34:19.298-07:00I so agree! For me insta-love is as you say, that ...I so agree! For me insta-love is as you say, that dna-wired-in meeting of two people who are destined to spend the rest of their lives together from the first second they meet. I really don't enjoy reading about that. I love, however, the whole glancing, accidental hands meeting love that grows as the plot develops. Essjayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07520594953099845794noreply@blogger.com