tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post6066197804154827497..comments2024-02-18T00:24:05.514-08:00Comments on The Zoë-Trope: REAL GIRLS, FAKE GIRLS, EVERBODY HATES GIRLSZoë Marriotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-47400475778475805282015-01-29T11:19:54.224-08:002015-01-29T11:19:54.224-08:00Oh and...
Tomboys? Awesome!
Girly-Girls? Awesome!...Oh and...<br /><br />Tomboys? Awesome!<br />Girly-Girls? Awesome!<br /><br />I forgot to add these types to the list.Misty Hernandeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-71182647820425584972015-01-29T10:52:37.651-08:002015-01-29T10:52:37.651-08:00Finally, a decent human being! Man, I can't te...Finally, a decent human being! Man, I can't tell you many times I wanna strangle the shit out of fandoms who hate every heroine for (they might deny it but...)solely being the heroine! Granted, I know there are some people who dislike a certain heroine just because of her character type but damn, even the bravest heroine gets a lot of retarded hate from fangirls. A Heroine could never get away with anything.<br /><br />Like Yui Komori from Diabolik Lovers. She is hated for being weak, submissive, shy and naïve. Or just plain innocent!(Note: Diabolik Lovers is an otome game (visual novel targeted at girls) and it is about a bunch of sadistic vampires. It has been adapted into an anime but I would suggest you read some detailed game reviews or play the game if you know Japanese or just watch subtitled gameplays on youtube before watching the anime.)<br /><br />And then there's Yuuki Cross/Kuran from Vampire Knight who is brave and knows how to fight but is a slut for sleeping with both Zero and Kaname. Oh my freaking goodness fangirls, get a grip! Yes, I can agree that her actions may have been hurtful to them but at least it was out of love for both of them.<br /><br />And whenever I run into a fanfiction with an OC created with heroine hate, I get so pissed I want to beat the crap out of those authors. Especially if their OC is a Mary Sue or is not that much different than the heroine (Can't they be original?)!<br /><br />Feisty Fighter Heroine? Awesome!<br />Damsel In Distress? Awesome!<br />Sweet and innocent Heroine? Awesome!<br />Experienced and Sensual Heroine? Awesome!<br />Smart and Geeky Heroine? Awesome!<br />Atheletic Cheerleader? Awesome!<br />Shy and Naïve Heroine? Awesome!<br />Outgoing and Friendly Heroine? Awesome!<br />Girl Next Door? Awesome!<br />The Popular Girl? Awesome!<br />Normal Girl? Awesome!<br />Weird Girl? Awesome<br /><br />Every Heroine that can be defined as a Sarah Jane is great! The Heroine hate needs to freaking stop! <br /><br />As an author/writer on Wattpad, I sometimes worry about what would people would think about my female characters. I worry if I become a Professional author, my heroines and other female characters might suffer the same hate. I feel sorry for these artists who put a lot of effort into developing their heroines. Do these OC writers have no shame?<br /><br />Also if anyone is interested in my writing, I go by Booglehead on Wattpad and Lady Indicolite on Quotev (I'm currently inactive on that sight though.)<br /><br />I'm so glad I found your blog!Misty Hernandeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-61712002286652756402014-11-29T18:16:14.263-08:002014-11-29T18:16:14.263-08:00Seems to me the solution is to write more female c...Seems to me the solution is to write more female characters the more they whine about it. Give them females until they're sick of it, until they eventually stop being self hating sexists. <br /><br />What I have zero respect for is female authors who are scared to write female characters for fear of being slammed and labelled Mary Sue so refuse to do so. That's letting ignorance win.And ignorance should never win. <br /><br /> <br /><br /> Blackmangahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371913772555966926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-27991643053173803022014-03-19T04:55:38.686-07:002014-03-19T04:55:38.686-07:00This is an amazing piece that has voiced a lot of ...This is an amazing piece that has voiced a lot of the unrefined thoughts swirling about in the back (and front, occasionally) of my mind. You verbalized this much better than I could, I'm so glad I found this. Thank you so much.Callihttp://www.calligraffitied.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-75525390614837196072014-03-09T11:42:56.683-07:002014-03-09T11:42:56.683-07:00I love everything about this essay. Everything. Th...I love everything about this essay. <i>Everything.</i> Thank you for sharing it. (Here from tumblr)dramatic owlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-90322326902250408732014-03-03T18:05:52.924-08:002014-03-03T18:05:52.924-08:00I just found your blog recently when I was annoyed...I just found your blog recently when I was annoyed over a criticism that went - "Sigh. Mary Sue." - that was it. No specifics, no details, no nothing. I was looking for a quote I had once read refuting the whole criticism, and couldn't find it, but I found your blog so I was thrilled. Thank you so much for both your articles on Mary Sue and this one on Sarah Jane. I have linked to all three of them on my tumblr blog urging people to read them, and I will continue to boost the signal because more authors who want to write female leads need to have this kind of armor/weapon in their arsenal. A zillion kudos to you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05950736382345771701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-74916415964425553272014-02-02T20:15:23.795-08:002014-02-02T20:15:23.795-08:00What's scary is that this post implies the onl...What's scary is that this post implies the only acceptable way to write a non-Mary Sue (or hated woman) is to write her as a side note. Sort of what Molly Hooper was originally intended to be in Sherlock.<br /><br />Thinking on that, my question becomes are women essentially being erased in our fandoms as a result? I mean... by us? By fellow <i>women</i>? Are we removing ourselves from the narrative so that we too are 'good'?<br />magicbunnihttp://magicbunni.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-70452674858882181942014-01-09T15:04:28.759-08:002014-01-09T15:04:28.759-08:00Amy: I agree about Sakura. Naruto and Sasuke are b...Amy: I agree about Sakura. Naruto and Sasuke are both equally 'annoying' at the start, and they all develop and change... but Sakura gets no credit for this, while everyone drools over Sasuke's morally questionable antics. Ooh, great link - thank you! And I think you might like the links to the Mary-Sue blogposts (you can find them in the left sidebar, up at the top).Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-77371840896022564162014-01-09T14:33:55.815-08:002014-01-09T14:33:55.815-08:00This is a fantastic piece and I absolutely agree. ...This is a fantastic piece and I absolutely agree. I'm in a fair amount of fandoms, and I really have noticed that flawed female characters are definitely despised. I've noticed this in particular when part of various anime fandoms: for example, going into "Naruto" I was told over and over that I was going to hate the main female, Sakura, only to find that she was one of the most developed and human female characters I have ever read. Often, the female characters in the media we consume is labelled as "weak" or "useless" or both (simply for showing emotion), and without proper evidence. I really do suspect internalised misogynism - and that we are FAR more forgiving of males for expressing the same amount of emotions, or having the same amount of flaws. A great "litmus test" is to see "Let's say this character was a male. What would he be like? Will I like him now?" <br /><br />I also found a Tumblr that may be of interest to you: http://fyeahcontroversialcharacters.tumblr.com/ This is a tumblr purely for the defense of often-hated characters, the majority of which are "annoying female characters". It makes me very happy. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02241447737302218673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-88846627135850347642013-12-30T15:08:50.173-08:002013-12-30T15:08:50.173-08:00S.E.: I think it's really encouraging that so ...S.E.: I think it's really encouraging that so many of us are individually and collectively noticing this bullcrap and calling it out. The more you know!Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-48381849603794167112013-12-30T14:43:54.074-08:002013-12-30T14:43:54.074-08:00This was a great post! Thanks so much for sharing....This was a great post! Thanks so much for sharing. I certainly do see the similarities, now that you mention it ;) Humor is my armor, I suppose.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034419617457525778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-20487965086366910612013-09-27T10:56:25.041-07:002013-09-27T10:56:25.041-07:00Getting an A in relationships reminds me of the vi...Getting an A in relationships reminds me of the visual novel School festival, where the Tsundere love interest yells at the heroine that she is stupid not to figure out that his jerkassery towards her means interest. You can find my detailed comment on the Nightmaremode site below the article Love interests: Arianna Belle-Essai, the teacher's vixen. Arianna also grinds my gears for reasons detailed in my comment.KashyaCharsihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702385668581731160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-4330979265239158732013-09-16T09:21:43.159-07:002013-09-16T09:21:43.159-07:00Wee bit late to the party but thought I would comm...Wee bit late to the party but thought I would comment anyway! I feel your weariness Zoe :-(<br /><br /><br />It's bullying in fictional form. Girls (and lets face it – it *is* mostly girls) are completely unrestrained in their efforts to tear apart fictional characters, because who does it hurt anyway? They’re not real. Celebrities are fair game too. Lets make websites about how much we hate that girl off that show, what does it matter, she shouldn’t have got famous if se couldn’t take it.<br />While we’re at it, lets make a facebook page about how much we hate that girl in our class with the really weird hair. I’ve never spoken to her but everyone hates her so she must be a bitch.<br /><br />In my experience this venom some girls seem to have for each other is prompted by absolutely nothing. There is no rhyme or reason to it – it’s like they have a cauldron of hate just waiting to be poured on anyone – and anyone will do. The first hint of annoyance is enough to set it all off. <br /><br />Ugh. <br /><br />Can you tell I spent 7 years at an all girls school?<br /><br />Laura Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604133412050870730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-42653961981916830152013-08-26T09:38:01.937-07:002013-08-26T09:38:01.937-07:00Thank you, Kate :)Thank you, Kate :)Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-82167435886313750932013-08-26T09:35:33.808-07:002013-08-26T09:35:33.808-07:00Zoë Marriott, this post is absolutely brilliant! I...Zoë Marriott, this post is absolutely brilliant! I found it through a tweet from one of my followers on Twitter, and I am going to retweet and email this amazing blog post to everyone I can. Thank you so very much for inspiring this vital discussion.Kate McMurryhttp://katemcmurry.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-49732940850112652732013-08-25T03:04:37.880-07:002013-08-25T03:04:37.880-07:00Thanks, Becky! That's really interesting :)Thanks, Becky! That's really interesting :)Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-79288499620610657882013-08-24T09:22:14.528-07:002013-08-24T09:22:14.528-07:00Thought you might find this op ed by actor Anna Gu...Thought you might find this op ed by actor Anna Gunn about the vitriolic hatred of the character she plays on Breaking Bad. Very familiar! http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/opinion/i-have-a-character-issue.htmlBeeCyclinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03112685054452735536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-56407299911103498042013-08-24T00:35:50.173-07:002013-08-24T00:35:50.173-07:00Alex: Thank you. I'm so glad that I managed to...Alex: Thank you. I'm so glad that I managed to express these feelings that I and so many others have had - frustration and just complete boredom with the way that female characters are treated. We exist. We're fifty-one percent of the population. Our thoughts and feelings and actions and words MATTER. We do not need to apologise for existing or for not being men. We are not a niche group, dammit. We are people.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-38171936146058802542013-08-23T13:14:04.525-07:002013-08-23T13:14:04.525-07:00I love, love, love this post, and it says all I...I love, love, love this post, and it says all I've ever wanted to say on the subject and more. I hate this idea that female characters (especially, I think, in YA) aren't allowed to exist. <br /><br />As a teenage girl, I hate being indirectly shamed, through the endless criticism of every female character in every form of media ever, for daring to exist, for daring to take up space, for daring to not apologize for putting myself and my needs and my dreams first. It's as though being a teenage girl is such a terrible crime that we somehow need to repent for it, and that we owe the world and the patriarchy for being grand enough to cope with our presence in a world where we aren't wanted. <br /><br />So thanks for writing this post- I can tell I'll be rereading it many, many times.Alex Haymanhttp://itsalexhayman.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-31909026104495132202013-08-21T02:02:09.895-07:002013-08-21T02:02:09.895-07:00Cicely: Supernatural fandom was one of the ones I ...Cicely: Supernatural fandom was one of the ones I was thinking about. I'm not really into that fandom, but maybe looking at it from the outside makes it more clear to me just what is going on. Trying to work out WHY is the disturbing part. Do we women really hate ourselves that much?Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-78675164765864480772013-08-21T01:57:46.418-07:002013-08-21T01:57:46.418-07:00This post is fantastic. There's so much hate f...This post is fantastic. There's so much hate for female characters lately, especially in fandom. Like how in Supernatural almost every recurring female character was killed off (partially as a result of the fandom hating them) apart from Charlie, who is a lesbian and as such not a sexual threat to Sam and Dean. Seriously. I think she's the only recurring female character who hasn't been killed. Oh yeah, and Krissy, who's a kid. It sucks.<br /><br />But I know that I'm guilty of doing this myself sometimes, which makes me want to reassess my reasons for doing so, because it is really not on.Cicelyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17737697388817864093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-79866213863167777132013-08-21T00:16:50.151-07:002013-08-21T00:16:50.151-07:00Tabitha: This post wasn't meant to be me havin...Tabitha: This post wasn't meant to be me having a go at writers who create competent, slim, clever characters. It was meant to be a critique of why readers (often female readers) direct hatred at female characters for not living up to impossible standards, while fawning all over male characters who act like jerks. Nevertheless, your character sounds pretty interesting - good luck with your book.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-62867923722319821652013-08-21T00:13:34.863-07:002013-08-21T00:13:34.863-07:00Well I have to acquit myself here. The protagonist...Well I have to acquit myself here. The protagonist of my novel, Gift of Continence, is fat, lazy, stupid, incompetent at everything, completely self-centred and an utter failure at relationships. Nevertheless, I think I've succeeded in making her a likeable character. <br />Tabitha Ormiston-Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06033168777221934807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-41508282142957098782013-08-21T00:13:07.121-07:002013-08-21T00:13:07.121-07:00RogueFiccer: Well... sorry, but you've sort of...RogueFiccer: Well... sorry, but you've sort of proved my point for me there. Sebastian is a child murderer and an attempted incestuous rapist who wants to kill everyone or turn them into half-demons. Yet you find him less loathesome than... Clary. Who just wants to save the world, spend time with her boyfriend, paint pretty pictures and hang out with her mum and new stepdad. Yeah. The fact that you also hate Jace, for other reasons that you don't want to go into, doesn't really lessen the cognitive dissonance for me there. Have a think about why Clary's flaws (her recklessness, maybe?) or what you perceive as her lack of flaws (I don't know, maybe you feel she's superpowered?) engender so much more hatred from you than the flaw of smashing a child's head in with a hammer. If you really *think* about that, and about the points raised in this post, maybe you'll discover something about yourself and where that knee-jerk reaction came from.<br /><br />Katy S: I had no idea what BlogLovin' was, so I went and did some research, and I've added a widget. Thanks. And thanks for reblogging, too.<br /><br />Lacey: That's true, but this phenomenon is a little bit different than that. We're talking about near universal hatred for female characters based on 'she's so annoying!', and near universal adoration for male characters despite their being rapists and murderers. Something much deeper and more worrying than 'you can't please all the people' going on there.Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098049071459822748.post-28542934719537615282013-08-20T23:22:37.393-07:002013-08-20T23:22:37.393-07:00It's like that old saying goes: you can't ...It's like that old saying goes: you can't please all the people all the time." If there is one character that someone loves, someone else is bound to hate her. That's just the way it is. Characters are like people that way. ;) I often like characters with flaws but I've read other reviewers hate the same characters I love for the same reason's I love them. Lacey Reahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08177266926523175238noreply@blogger.com